A Path to Wine: An Interview with Charlotte Millemann

Pierre and Stéphanie Millemann founded their own oenology consultancy business – Millemann Consulting – in 2003, and they work with some of the most prestigious estates in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, and the USA, as well as in Burgundy where they live. Charlotte Millemann is their daughter and joined the family business six years ago in 2017.

As well as consulting, the Millemanns started making their own wine in 2017 when Charlotte joined the business – specifically, single barrels of grand cru Burgundy, with the fruit coming from producers for whom they consult. These wines have already achieved significant critical acclaim, with Jasper Morris giving most of the wines four and five stars and writing that he likes their balance of “free thinking initiative with meticulous control”.

Charlotte, I’m really looking forward to talking to you today; thank you for joining me. Would you mind sharing with us a bit about your upbringing in Burgundy?

I was actually born in the Jura where both of my parents met. My mother originated from there and my father held a position as a winemaker. We then moved to the South of France where my father held several positions as a winemaker. We moved back to Burgundy when I was about five with my parents starting the business in 2003. I’ve been in the middle of it all for my whole life!

Can you remember a key moment where your love or fascination with wine began?

I’m an only child so was with my parents a lot as I didn’t have siblings to play with. I was with them in the car going to appointments with my dad or going with my mum to collect samples from clients. Most of our clients are in Burgundy and I’ve known them since I was five or six. They’ve practically known me for my entire life. I would be in the cellars all the time. I would spend time in the vineyards and do things with my father on the weekends – I’ve just lived through it.

Do you remember the first time you tasted wine?

I don’t think I remember the first time I tasted wine because it’s tradition on a child’s first birthday to put a touch of wine on their lips. I think that must have been the first time. My parents have always allowed me to taste wine to get an insight into it from a very young age. I think the first time that I was allowed my first full glass of wine was maybe my twelfth birthday when I sipped my first half glass of champagne. I remember it because it was the first time I was a bit tipsy which was a new feeling to me! I am still a very big fan of champagne.

You first studied English and German at Paris Sorbonne University before going on to study a degree in oenology and viticulture. Was the plan always to go on and study oenology and join the family business or did you make that decision while you were in Paris? How did everything play out in terms of your studies?

The decision came later. I had been in this environment my whole life and I think I wanted to see something else. I’ve seen through my parents’ work in consulting that working internationally is important and it was something I was very much eager to do. That’s why I decided to study languages, because from a young age I’d seen that it was important and nice to be able to communicate with people all around the world in their own language. It makes things easier. The first plan, which surprises people a lot, was to work in the jewellery sector which people tend to think is very different from the wine industry. In fact, it’s quite similar in the way that you go from a very raw product like grapes and stones and through hard work you make something extraordinary out of it. When I was about to finish my degree and having had several internships, I noticed that the jewellery industry was a big one with big businesses and lots of people. Having grown up in Burgundy with lots of family businesses, it felt way too much and too big for me. I had seen my parents’ work throughout my childhood and as a child I don’t really think that’s what you want for yourself. I saw the business and what it involved and thought that’s quite cool, drinking for work - maybe that would be nice! I could also use my language skills in the business. I gave it a shot and it worked!

Did you go straight from your languages degree into studying oenology and viticulture? Or did you have a break in between?

I finished my bachelor’s degree in Paris and then started working with my parents which I had done prior during summers since I was 14 or 15 as I was already able to speak German and English. I’ve known how the business works for a long time. The degree in oenology and viticulture was a day per week for a year. Each week I’d spend one day studying oenology and then work the other days alongside it. It was a good thing for my first year of work as I was adjusting to all these new things going on and learning the basics of oenology and viticulture. It was a good balance.

Was there a part of that degree that appealed more to you?

I’d say I loved both oenology and viticulture. The only bit which I must admit that was not my cup of tea was all the chemistry. Having learnt languages and literature, chemistry wasn’t my thing. But as I’d heard from my father, looking at viticulture is like the way you’d ask a three Michelin star chef to make an amazing dish with bad products – he wouldn’t be able to achieve it. Viticulture is really the basis of all winemaking. I remember what really fascinated me was the extraction process for red wines and all the tiny details that can be adjusted and make a huge difference to the wine.

You joined the family business Millemann Consulting in 2017. What was your role when you first joined? And how would you define your role now?

It needed some adjustments at the beginning because my parents were doing it all on their own, so I just needed to find my space. The agreement today, concerning the consulting company, is that my dad does all the technical parts and works with clients. My mother and I organise the schedules and my mother manages the French- speaking clients which includes Burgundy and Switzerland. I handle German-speaking clients as well as English clients. A large part of the work is working closely with the Damy cooperage in Meursault, who we also source barrels for and we are agents for them both in Germany and Switzerland. It’s especially busy at the moment at the time that we’re doing this interview as it’s the start of harvest and so everyone is getting their barrels. I work on this as well.

It's been six years since you joined the business in your current role. How has that evolved, and do you feel like you’ve carved out your niche in the business?

I’ve worked with my parents previously, so I knew most of the clients, both abroad and at home. But being an agent for the barrels I’ve had to learn how to advise our clients which was a challenge to me at the beginning. You have to have a good knowledge of the products and understand what the clients want from the barrels which is something you only acquire through experience. Studying Oenology has helped but it’s really the experience that helps the most. Adjustments in the company were more on the wines side, but everyone has had to find their own space.

How would you say that your mother, your father and you make decisions about the future of the business? Do you have a formal meeting or is it more relaxed than that?

We’ve tried to have a better work/life balance over the past couple of years but sometimes at Sunday lunches for example, we talk about work and so it’s mostly informal as it’s just the three of us. If I’m being very honest there are small disagreements, but we discuss those and see other’s points of view and give them a go. We trust each other. I think what’s great about family businesses is that although more feelings are involved, if you disagree with something you tend to just say it and then it’s done and there’s no resentment. No one takes things personally – I think it helps.

Building on that, what are the biggest positives and negatives of working in a family business?

We gain a lot of time because there’s not always the need to communicate verbally as we can just look at each other and know what the other is thinking. But a downside is that you’re pretty much always working. Sometimes you’ll be relaxing and think of something and mention it and before you know it it’s turned into an hour-long business talk even though it’s a Sunday afternoon. We try to separate things as much as possible because you need to relax in order to be efficient at other times.

Could you talk us though the decision to make wines in Burgundy under Millemann Wines. As I understand, 2017 was the first vintage that you as a business made your own barrels of Grand Cru Burgundy.

There were three points which led us to making wine under our own name. My parents started their consulting business as a couple which I came into later. We thought it could be nice to start a business in which the three of us could be involved from the very start. For this job you need to know a lot about wine but’s also about practice, as I’ve already mentioned. This was an opportunity for me to learn how to make wine practically. Also, we work very much under my father’s philosophy because we do things that we couldn’t do in a much bigger winery. And the third part, maybe the biggest part, is that we wanted to make a charity project. When I was 15, I was diagnosed with Crohn’s disease which was very hard for me of course. I’d say even harder for my parents as it took a year for the doctors to figure out what I had. It could have been much worse if it had been a cancer but that was a difficult year. One of my mum’s friends lost a baby girl at 3 months’ old. It’s horrible being in the church and seeing this little coffin and it makes you think ‘how is this possible?’ Knowing that people have to experience this makes it very real. With the business it was perhaps nice to know we could write a cheque or have a pension, but we wanted to make something of it and that’s how the charity project idea came about.

The initiative started with the first vintage, 2017, and we started offering magnums in 2019 when the first vintage was being bottled. We only sell the 75cl formats but these magnums and bigger formats like jeroboams are only for charity. Clients can’t buy our larger formats. Then we started thinking about how we could add value to these bottles and then the idea came about that we should have the bottle labels personalised. Our regular labels are black and for this first edition of the 2017 we printed white labels for people to sign them, draw on them, and make them their own. So, each label is an original. They’re not printed. They have been personalised by many people including Prince Albert of Monaco. The Princess Grace Foundation of Monaco gives money to research programmes for ill children. It also builds houses for parents next to hospitals. In the wine world we also had Aubert de Villaine from DRC. Also, Brigitte Bardot the French actress. We wanted to get many different people from different fields of work because illness can affect all of us. That was very important to us.

Your first charity auction was last November, raising more than 100,000 euros with the Princess Grace Foundation. Will you do another auction?

This auction was meant to take place earlier but due to Covid we had to postpone it until 2022. But everyone has asked us that same question. When the evening ended, we all said no because it was a tremendous amount of work! It was so exciting, and we met a lot of people – it was amazing. We truly couldn’t have imagined raising so much money and having so much fun with all the people who came. I think we’re slightly worried people will lose interest if we do it every year, but we still do release special editions each year with different themes.

For example, we’ve had editions with doctors, with winemakers. The 2020 ones 2021s have two magnums per appellation. We have six appellations, making twelve magnums in total. And the theme for 2020 2021 is zodiac signs. The labels have gold leaf and are packaged in a special gold box and are very limited, but each one having a different sign to make up the twelve signs of the zodiac. Each one is unique. We offer these to clients and all the money goes back to charity.

It’s clear that charity and giving back is very important to your parents and your business. But if you were to sum up Millemann and your ethos in a few sentences, what would those sentences be?

From a young age I’ve always been told by my parents, if you do something, do it well or not at all. This is what we apply to everything for example in the wine protection as I’ve mentioned when doing single barrel batches and in all the racking it’s all done by gravity. We also work in a biodynamic direction for all these operations that are carried out on specific Moon calendar dates. There are lots of tiny details that come together to make the bigger picture which aims for the best quality as possible.

What are your ambitions for the business both in the short term (5-10 years) and long term (20-30 years)?

I think 20 to 30 years is hard to answer because we might have plans, but life has other plans for us. I’d say short term, we have the will to expand which we’ve been doing a little since the 2022 vintage. Our goal is not to expand too much so that we can remain focused on what we’re doing and maintain the same level of quality. All the things that we’re doing in the vineyards cellar take a tremendous amount of time and so the goal was to not lose ourselves in an attempt to strive for quantity. We also want to give keep going with great ideas for charity so that we can give back as much money as possible. I think what people have realised throughout Covid is that unfortunately none of us are safe from being ill so that remains very important to us. Especially in the current world where everything is moving so quickly, it is important to adjust to modernity. I would also say it’s very difficult to keep focused and remain balanced whilst trying to keep the quality of a product.

You mentioned the vineyards that you source from. How involved are you with the vineyards in terms of how they’re farmed, and the practices used as a business? Is this something that you advise on or are you more focused on the winery side of activities?

The particularity of the consulting business is that my father works both on the winemaking process as well as the viticulture process. He goes from A-Z with clients. As I said earlier, there’s no point trying to make a great wine if your fruit isn’t good. We’ve always said, we were very lucky to be in Burgundy for more than 20 years and so know a lot of people who trust us, knowing that we’ve got the greatest expertise on this part as well. We source fruit from people who let us get involved in the process. We’re not certified biodynamic but work in this way which can sometimes make things tricky with what they require depending on whether they agree or not. It becomes almost a philosophical question. We only work with people who work in this direction because it is very important to us to respect the product and nature who gives it to you. Like our ethos, we’re really control freaks! We want and need to be a part of the process.

What does sustainability mean to you and how to you seek to integrate it into what you do?

The first thing that comes to mind is environmental sustainability. Of course, we work with nature and the seasons, we work with the weather and in the past years we’ve seen how much climate change has affected us. We’ve had some complicated and extreme vintages such as 2003 so that’s not new. But in terms of respecting the vines and soil it’s very important to work with nature and to respect it. If you work with nature, then you’re going to respect the food and product. That is very important. The other aspect is that wine is a very traditional industry in Burgundy and it remains in small businesses who must adapt to modernity and new techniques. It’s also important to use common sense as a lot of things have been lost throughout the years and it can be good to go back to basics. I’m not saying tradition is always good, but you need to make a bridge between tradition and modernity.

The first wines you’ve been making are from Grand Cru Burgundy vineyards. What has that felt like in terms of pressure? And what have you learnt by being hands on in the vineyard in comparison to your studies?

I didn’t feel more pressure because it’s Grand Cru rather than Village from some unknown wine region. I know from the WSET education that there is a huge part of the world that is very unknown to me. I was brought up in Burgundy in the middle of all these incredible domaines, having known people who are very famous in the wine world and who produce very great and rare wine. I think perhaps I didn’t realise this pressure because I’ve grown up with it all. With any wine, it being Grand Cru or not, you have to do your best.

Looking back now, what have been the biggest challenges that you’ve faced in making the transition into working for the family business?

I would say that the biggest difficulties at the very beginning were not in the consulting part but in the charity part of the business. You’re facing big things and it’s difficult to know where to start and how to organise things for example. For an auction we have to have an auctioneer so it’s beginning to ask questions like who are we going to contact etc. In the end, we were very happy and it came out well. I learnt a lot. It’s the times that it’s hard that you learn the most.

What are your favourite wine regions for Chardonnay and Pinot Noir outside of Burgundy?

If I’m including both varieties, I would say Champagne. Always important! For Pinot Noir I am a big fan of Baden in Germany. I tend to think you find the elegance found in Burgundy there. And for Chardonnay, it is smaller production but I would say the Jura. I think my mum would kill me if I didn’t mention it! I love to drink other varieties and am and always will be a big fan of Chardonnay and Pinot Noir of course. For reds I love Syrah from the Rhône Valley. For the whites, Sauvignon of course and Reisling from my time in Germany. There are a few varieties which I enjoy less but I’m always curious. For example, for the WSET qualifications you tend to have a bigger picture of the other regions which gives you a different view of Pinot Noir and Chardonnay. You see lots of different things like the level of tannins.

With your consultancy business, you work across a number of different vineyards and regions and countries. So Burgundy, Austria, Switzerland, Italy and the USA. Are there any countries or regions that you’re not already working with that you personally would really like to work with in the future?

We are eager to work with Germany as I think that people picture Germany as just making very sweet wines and sometimes low quality. But that was 40 years or so ago and now they’re making amazing wines! I’m interested in regions with lots of different characteristics. It’s like in Switzerland where, because of the varying characteristics depending on where you are, for example the mountains and the lakes, the wines can be very different. We are always interested in new places.

What wine is in your fridge right now?

Champagne always! There doesn’t need to be a special time to open a bottle, come rain or shine. The one I have right now is from Veuve Fourny & Fils. I’m not sure how many people would have heard of them. They are two brothers and in fact my Dad studied alongside one of the brothers in his first two years of his studies. We like to buy wine from the people we like.

Charlotte, what do you do when you’re not thinking and drinking wine?

Well drinking wine is a big part of my life! Otherwise you’ll most likely find me walking my dog through the vineyards as I live very close by.

And lastly, I appreciate it wasn’t that long ago since you joined the family business but you’ve achieved so much, what piece of advice would you give to your younger self six years ago when you joined the business?

I’d say don’t ever feel stupid for not knowing something or when asking a question. There is so much to know about wine and no one can know everything. You will always learn so much by asking questions.

That’s great advice, thank you Charlotte for your time.